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Molly Magid:��Welcome to UC Science Radio, where we conduct interviews with a range of scientists to learn about the big issues facing our world and what science is doing to help. I'm Molly Magid, a master’s student in the School of Biological Sciences.

Today I’m talking with Dr. John Pirker of Ngāi Tahu, Te Ātiawa, Ngāti Porou descent. He’s a scientist and lecturer in Biological Sciences whose research focuses on Pāua. He is also a co-founder of He Puna Pūtaiao – a programme aimed at inspiring Year 10 Māori students to pursue science at university.

Kia ora John, welcome to UC Science Radio. Could you introduce yourself and talk about what your role is at UC?

John Pirker:��Kia ora Molly.
Ko Poutakai te maunga.
Ko Waihemo te awa.
Ko Āraiteuru te waka.
Ko Ngāi Tahu te iwi.
Ko Moeraki te Rūnanga.
Nō Ōtautahi ahau.
Ko John Pirker tōku ingoa.

No reira tēnā koutou Molly.

Yeah I'm a really an ecologist at heart in the School of Biological Sciences here at the ���سԹ�. I've had multiple roles through my career from a Māori advisor in the College of Science, an advisor at the Research and Innovation Office, and teaching roles across ecology and arts.

And what's your research about?

JP:��Well it's been very varied, it's more about my students’ research. My primary research, if we go back to when I was an undergrad and again through postgrad, was working on Pāua, abalone for those who aren't from New Zealand. Of late, the Kaikōura earthquakes brought it back into focus of the public's attention, but also in terms of our research, in terms of what's happening in the recovery of those iconic animals and seaweeds as well. The main project that I'm working on is part of the Kaikōura work, the earthquake work and just making sure we maintain those relationships with our whānau up North, our mana whenua in Kaikōura.

(I’m involved in) research with multiple students across multiple subjects. If it's not looking at the NRL, it's looking at freshwater mussels, it's looking at bioreactors. Recently my Master's student,��from Moana Pacific up in Nelson finished his masters on oysters. I suppose the common theme there is that most of them are food-related, mahinga kai, and a lot of that work comes out of my connections with Māori, my relationship there. Supporting Māori, and the environment, mahinga kai, and trying to embed some Mātauranga Māori across the sciences as well, so that's where I’ve focused my research.

So how did the earthquake affect species that were living there?

JP:��Well, the initial impacts were seen quite widely in the media looking at all those uplifted reefs, those rocks. You have those huge populations of Pāua (exposed), and then of course having to recover those and put them back into the water. A huge impact on the seaweeds in terms of die-off, in terms of those uplifted areas, and erosion of some of those reefs. There's good signs of recovery,��especially in the lower inter tidal regions, and some really good signs of natural recovery of Pāua coming through those juveniles in those highly impacted area. And a lot of that work has been along with local mana whenua in Kaikōura, just working with them on some of those reseeding projects and monitoring projects as well.

What is that partnership like? What work do you do?

����:��Well, it's a relationship for me, a personal relationship. My whakapapa up in Kaikōura, been working with the rūnanga up there with some of our course work. We have a first year course: Science, Māori, and Indigenous Knowledge, and so every year we go up there and stay on the marae. As part of that we've translocated or reseeded Pāua into some of those kōhanga or juvenile areas and monitored those. That’s been, well, not so much a partnership, but working with and putting something back into the community. Last year's results with their skim course, they did a phenomenal effort of tagging five hundred Pāua. We got growth rates I think about 35/36 millimetres per year based on how long those animals have been out. That’s of course for small animals, large animals tend to slow down in growth, as we all do. But that's real cool stuff that the class does, and feeds that information back to the community. So that relationship, hopefully, from my point of view, is well, and it’s appreciated.

So could you talk a bit more about that and what you recommend for other researchers who are interested in incorporating Mātauranga Māori in their research?

JP:��Engaging and working with Māori and incorporating Mātauranga Māori, the first step is working with Māori and developing that relationship at the beginning of any research process. Sitting down on the marae, discussing what you're proposing today and see how your work could benefit Māori. Of course, there's always, there's two sides in how Māori and Mātauranga can inform your research. Just a more holistic and, I suppose, more informed research, and it's just fantastic opportunities. That's why I enjoy it so much, working with communities, working with our students, our postgrad students and undergrad students and just saying, well there's other knowledge systems out there that have often described a lot of what we see today in Western science terms, but just in a different way of observing or knowing.

I saw that some research that you've done has looked at the water quality and how it's impacted Pāua, is that correct?

JP:��It's been a few cases looking at water quality, in terms of a Master’s student looking at norovirus and cadmium levels. Again, looking at the food safety so looking at phytoplankton in Te Waihora. We have an outreach program that we run with five schools around Christchurch, with year 10 Māori students who look at the water quality there in the tributaries that feed Te Waihora. That's a fantastic program. We've had a student looking at cockles in terms of our customary protection areas. Again, contaminants,��E. coli, and heavy metals in terms of food safety. Yeah, it's generally focused on the environment and impacts of us on the environment, and then flow-on effects from that to food, mahinga kai, kai moana.

Are there things that people can do to limit the contamination that gets into the waterways?

JP:��The focal points are farming and dairy farming, and understanding the impacts of that: nitrate levels, erosion, sediments in the waterways. And that has flow-on effects on not only the rivers, but through to the ocean. When I was doing my PhD on seaweeds out in Wainui, in Akaroa, they extended the slipway, which was great. But the material that they put over the slipway was boulders and loose clay, and unfortunately storm events caused this stuff to erode and then of course there's a plume of sediment that used to hang around the Wainui kelp forest that was there, I think for six months at least. That had a devastating impact on juvenile seaweeds in terms of recruitment and growing through to being adult seaweeds. Then of course there's shellfish associated with that. So, yeah, there's lots of things that you observe. I think we're all wary of pollution, plastics, in terms of micro-plastics, nutrients, sediment. Now we have climate change on top of that adding extra stresses. A colleague of mine is working on heat waves and the impact heat waves on our algal communities and then of course their impacts on shellfish.

You mentioned the programme with Year 10 students, He Puna Putāiao- could you talk about that program and how it started?

����:��I think it started off in 2013 with four schools. So it involves Lincoln, Cashmere, and Burnside. And the following year we got Linwood, and just last year Shirley Boys' have come into the fold. It was based on a program run up in Auckland, looking to real research for our rangatahi. It's evolved, and it's streamlined and from the feedback from the students, without sort of putting words into their mouths, they've enjoyed it.

What it involves is coming on campus for six weeks.��They learn firstly about stream environments, what animals they might find in the stream, water chemistry, some of the instruments that real fresh water researchers use, learn techniques on how to communicate science, so to put a poster together.��They get to meet scientists, academics, and get to talk about their cool research, because it’s not all about marine biology or freshwater: there's other sciences here at Canterbury, there's physics, chemistry, etc.

Then we go out for a field trip after having some background information and knowledge, and have a play with some of the invertebrates that they look at. Spend the day in the field collecting some invertebrates from the tributaries and streams that flow into the lake, at the lake mouth itself, and through the lake, collecting invertebrates, water samples to look at the chemistry, dissolved oxygen, temperature, etc. We bring all that material and that information back and they get to write a poster up on the theme that they choose and present that here on campus to the their teachers, their whānau, Taumutu Rūnanga who support the program. Again they can't do that without the support of some of their mentors across the college, the teachers, and support from the schools as well. So I suppose a shout-out needs to go for them. It's just not me, because there's a whole lot of people, a team behind that and supported heavily by the College of Science. And yeah, they enjoy it and they interact more with their teachers after the programme, they generally go onto tertiary studies. I think 90% of them have gone onto tertiary studies, not necessarily here at Canterbury, but they certainly succeed in that environment. It's a great program to put together and go through and take that journey with the students.

You've talked a little bit about your path to this research, but could you talk about what inspired you to do this?

JP: In the late eighties, I came to Canterbury with the aim of doing my undergrad here and then maybe going to vet school, and so I went through that process and had a great time honestly.����I think your undergraduate years are most informative, most fun and the colleagues and the friendships that you make.

At the same time, my next door neighbor, Trevor Howse, there was Tā Tipene O’Regan, and a few other kaumātua from Ngāi Tahu were sitting around a table at Trevor's place and discussing the formation of Ngāi Tahu, the genesis and the aspirations. It then that there was some huge interest in crayfish aquaculture and that inspired me towards marine biology.

So after my BSc, I tracked down a new professor who'd arrived here on campus when I arrived here after my OE and was determined, determined to work on crayfish. Not because they're good to eat, but also you know it was something that was of interest to the iwi. But I was persuaded to work on Pāua because that researcher had just come out of fisheries and was leading the team in Pāua there so it was more of his, I suppose, comfort zone. And so that’s where I started my marine biology career.

And then finished that Master's and I worked for Ministry of Fisheries in Dunedin for three years with a great team. It was a great opportunity because there was policy, and also research mixed within that job description.����So we did do some research and work with commercial fishers, recreational fishers and our local iwi groups to come up with recreational fishery policies, etc. That changed when NIWA and Ministry of Fisheries split up and I left and started my PhD working on seaweeds in Akaroa and up in Tory Channel. The end result was that it was a fallow crop to feed Pāua, so there's always, I suppose, that mollusk that's been sitting in the background of all my research career. That's the abridged version of how I got here.

What's the most fun or exciting part of your work?

JP:��Field trips tend to be daunting when you're preparing for them and you’re taking students out. Unfortunately with the COVID lockdown, we were meant to take students to Kaikoura for our marine biology field trip. That's daunting when preparing for it and busy when you're running it, but when it's all said and done and you've finished with it, it's fantastic. This year we couldn't do it, so we had to do that virtually so that was a challenge in itself. While there was some panicking at the initial part in terms of engagement with our students, everyone stepped up and did an amazing job.

We have a field trip again this year for our Science, Māori, Indigenous Knowledge course to Kaikoura. That's a fantastic trip because it's relaxed, it's on the marae, we work with the community, and well it's just a great time, and there’s so much to learn.

I enjoy the field trips, I enjoy the teaching, I enjoy giving my dad jokes. I suppose the one thing that stands out is when you look across the lecture theatre, whether it's a lecture theatre of 200, 100, or 40, and you see people realise that they actually understand something, or you've got something across or you've made a difference, or you get an email later on down the track thanking you and your colleagues for a fantastic course or a field trip or a lecture perhaps. It's just nice to know that some of those students who come through will be the drivers of policy,��the top researchers that will lead the country forward.

And working with communities. The last time I went up after our skim field trip to measure some Pāua that we'd pulled out as part of that, and having some of the community from the marae come out and support you and work with you in that space. To have that interaction too is just really fantastic. To know that your work or your interactions are appreciated are what keep you going.

My last question is, could you say why your work is so important, in one sentence?

JP:��I suppose my work is important because I hope that it ignites the flame of learning and the inspiration to learn, and starts a journey for both undergraduate and postgraduate students. As long as we can kindle that along and keep it going through the journey here, then that's I think the most important thing.

Well thank you so much for your time, I really enjoyed talking with you.

JP:��Thanks.

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